Full Transcript

Thank you. I guess we're on. Well, welcome, everyone, to the Zoning Board of Appeals meeting for Thursday, September 10th, 2026. If we could stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, please.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

If I could, I would like to just take a moment of silence for 9-11 and for all those people that were involved and paid the price. So if we could just take a moment of silence. Okay, thank you. Matthew? Sure. Okay, so number one, we have appeal number 2026-014, Eugene Cook, 1397 West Main Street, The other head, Suffolk County Tax Map number 600-119-2-46.3. This is located within the Riverfront Corridor Zoning Use District for a proposed hair salon. This is an application to withdraw the requested variances and or relief from Town Code Chapter 301-164, where hair salons are not permitted within the Riverfront Corridor Zoning Use District. And this was adjourned from July 9, 2026. Okay. Can we make a motion to second? I have a decision to reach. Wait. Okay, go ahead. Okay, fellow board members, with respect to appeal number 2026-014, the zoning board has rendered the following conclusion and determination. The zoning board of appeals did consider applicants' request to withdraw the application appeal number 2026-014 and did consider effort and expenditure of time and costs for site visits, review of history of the site, reviewing the criteria for use variance, review of applicable town code, hearing which was limited due to applicant's request to adjourn for additional due diligence on his part, and transcript, together with consideration of staff time and attendance and time of interested residents and based upon the same the zoning board grants the applicants request to withdraw the to withdraw with prejudice to reapply for such application for use variance for the subject site for one year from date of determination Mr. Forsyth. Aye. Mr. Zawisky. Aye. Mr. Barnes. Aye. And I vote aye for that. Read the next one. Appeal number 2026-015, Carlos Centeno, 413 Craterville Avenue, Riverhead. Suffolk County Tax Map number 600-124-2-13. This is located within the residence A40RA40 zoning use district. and it's to legalize in addition to a detached garage. Applicant requests variances and or relief from Town Code Chapter 301-9A1C, where rear yard setback is 2.8 feet, the minimum required is 20 feet, and Chapter 301-11, where lot coverage is 21.55%, and the maximum allowable is 15%. This was adjourned from July 23, 2026, and will require additional relief. I believe we're waiting on an updated information for a new denial letter, which we have not received yet so will need to be adjourned to a future meeting date the soonest I think it could be would be October 8th what was the date October 8th October 8th 2026 second all right mr. Porsche all right this is what's fine mr. barn my and I bought a life okay Matthew so we're gonna go apologies we're gonna go out of order so we're gonna meet move to appeal number 2026-017 John McCabe, cottage number 5, 2730 North Wading River Road, Wading River, Suffolk County tax map number 600-26-3-72. This is in the residence B80 or B80 zoning use district for a proposed addition to seasonal cottage. The applicant requests variances and or relief from Town Code Chapter 219-14A2, where proposed addition to seasonal cottage is not specifically allowed. Development under Chapter 219-14, subsection B, all development in the bluff area is prohibited unless specifically allowed by 219-14, subsection B. Good evening. Are you a lawyer? Yes. Welcome. please state your name and where you're from my name is Jackie Hubbard I'm here from to me Latham Shay Kelly do men Correra here never had across the street here on behalf of John the Cape application for cottage number five within the Sound Shores Guild Association which is located at two seven thirty just ask you to raise your voice Nothing in the ceiling. Just project a little bit more. North Whitting River Road and Whitting River. This cottage is located within that development. It happens to be located on top of the bluff there. It's a pre-existing non-conforming cottage. We received relief from this board in 2014 for the reconstruction of what was existing there. Everything was on the same footprint at that time. It had to go through a similar process as today, even though the chapter number changed for your code. so now we're here under chapter 219 for relief of the same this proposed addition as you can see on the site plan and as we've shown in our pictures and submission would be to enclose an area um it's to propose that the inclusion of a porch in the front area of the property where the existing driveway is no disturbance of areas that have not previously been disturbed is uh proposed um the property although the location of the proposed addition is not located um c word of the c uh the caa ehl line um the whole property is located within the sea hot area that's why we're here today before you um As we mentioned in our submission, the cottage itself is modest in nature. The surrounding cottages, I will say this is a varied development. The different sizes amongst the different cottages there. But adjacent to this cottage, most of them appear to be of a similar size. this addition would make it uh would match uh the square footage of a neighboring cottage to the the east um

for this edition um which just to provide a little additional um seasonal space seasonal summer space for an enclosed porch and like i said it's uh lambert of the cehl line um There is no other alternative site available for it. This is a good area for this because, and just to clarify, so as you can see on the site plan, there's a proposed addition and then there's the proposed enclosed porch. Beyond that, like I said, again, this area is previously disturbed with the garage. We've already gone to planning board and we appeared in front of them on their July 16th hearing. and obviously pending the decision here. The discussion there was primarily focused around obviously design requirements and mitigation of any effects that might occur from constructing this so close to the bluff, which we've submitted our plans to your review now as well. But the primary concern seemed to be if there would be any existing vegetation removed or anything like that. As you can see in the photos, if anything, there may be a tree that might have to be moved or taken down, but we, of course, are planning to revegetate as needed and as required. The association actually has their own requirements for tree plantings, and those will be followed as well. But the applicant is more than happy to make sure that there's replacement trees added per the planning board and per any conditions you may have as well. We'll take any means and measure necessary to mitigate any adverse impacts on the natural systems that are there. As you can see from the site plan, again, the top of the block is located, I guess, gets to the, it runs along the eastern side of the property, and then the deck itself faces off the bluff over the sound.

In size and scope, it is, we believe, not a substantial expansion of this property, and it's staying within the you know a small area of the cottage itself and it is a natural extension of that um construction and dwelling um i'm just gonna make sure i didn't miss one thing sorry um the other the other requirements for um relief from chapter 19 to 18 um there's no public funds involved with this project. Again, this is, I believe, a reasonable addition to the home and a reasonable proposal for an enclosed porch in this location. It won't affect, you know, any issues with the parking. There still will be space in front of it to park their vehicles. So I would hope that there'd be no issues with this proposal, but of course we're open to discussion and obviously any requirements that this board may have. And I would ask, I'm available to answer any questions you may have at this time too. I think the board was, we reviewed the application, we discussed it. I think the board's in agreement, and hopefully your client is in agreement. We'd like you to hand-dig whatever pilings are going to be dug in the ground, not use any machinery up there to kind of minimize the disturbances up on the bluff because you're in that coastal erosion zone, the whole structure is and the addition is. and one of the other things we discussed is we'd like to minimize or put as few pilings as possible to build you know it's the sturdy structure but not not add unnecessary pilings also to reduce the disturbances on the on the bluff if your hand dig I don't think there'll be I know I know you had mentioned that restore any vegetation that's damaged. But I think if you hand dig, there wouldn't be. I can't see any scenario where you would have to knock down trees or anything like that. I wouldn't think so. I think it was just the playing board wasn't sure, and there's one tree that's close, but I wouldn't think so. You think that's okay with that? Yes. I guess I would ask, how do you want us to, will that just be a condition to the decision? and then so do you know if there's an ability to reduce the number of pilings I don't have to check with our professional maybe we would be adjourned I think if it's okay with the zoning board it could be a condition to reduce the number of pilings or submit an engineered an engineer's updated that it's not feasible Okay. May I say something? The plan that's been provided, if you were to reduce the amount, the architect would have to actually certify it and submit a new sketch. Right. Or amended sketch. So, I mean, I only see how many pilings is. Six pilings? And if you reduced it to four, will that structurally be sound or not? I don't know. It's up to the architect to say it is. We just want to reduce the impact on the bluff. That's what we're all looking for. But we're trying to be realistic, too. You don't want to make it structurally unsound. Of course not. So I guess, can I ask the board if the next hearing is later this month, correct? I'm sorry, I can't. The next hearing is later this month. It would be that we have a meeting on the 24th of this month and then the 8th of October. Well, you could approve it subject to the condition. The architect's amendments. Okay. All right. I'll give you your decision. Okay, thank you. Fellow board members, with respect to appeal number 2026-017, I move that the appeal of John McCabe, Cottage No. 5, 2730 North Wading River Road, waiting river STM number 600 dash 26 dash 3 dash 72 residents be 80 RB 80 zoning for variances and no relief from the town code chapter 2 19 dash 14 a 2 where proposed addition to seasonal cottages not specifically allowed development under section 2 19 dash 14 subsection B all development in bluff areas is prohibited unless specifically allowed by section 2 19 dash 14 sub Section B, B, one of the conditions is that there'll be hand-handing of the pilings and that we will reduce the number of pilings or we'll have a revised plan submitted with an engineering affidavit that it's not feasible to reduce the amount of pilings. We're also, any vegetation that's disturbed or removed will be replaced. Um, and that would include trees, bushes, shrubs, et cetera. In accordance with the applications and sketches with the members there too, if any has filed with the building inspector second portion. All right. All right. Mr. Barnes and I vote aye. So it's been grand with the conditions. Good luck. Thank you. Okay. Moving to appeal number 20 26 dash 0 1 six bruce bruce brenner 6302 north country road waiting river suffolk county tax map number 600 dash 55 dash 4 dash 16 located within the residence b80 rb80 zoning use district this is an interpretation it's an appeal of determination from senior building inspector where an application for a letter of pre-existing use to establish a four-family dwelling is not in accordance with the town of riverhead records which reflect a three-family dwelling i must speak mr go ahead let him swore in then i'll say uh welcome mr cuddy go ahead good evening i'm charles cuddy 445 griffin avenue riverhead new york okay hold on a minute mr cutter i need to speak just for a second i have to recuse myself from this case uh when i was the chief building inspector i had examined prior records and uh it was based on the legality of the use of this house I'm not sure what year it was, but it was before 2011. So I have to recuse. Okay? And for the record, Mr. Cuddy, Zoni board member Barnes did not participate in any work session discussion on this matter. I would not bring that up. Okay. Thank you.

Okay, that's the Cuddy. Okay, I can start again. As soon as he leaves the building.

Just a question. There's no microphone? It's picking up on speakers in the ceiling. Oh, okay. I was wondering, with my voice, it doesn't carry as well, so I'll try and speak a little bit louder. Excuse me, Justin? I think you're in line. okay it's important that we hear him fine sure thank you go ahead sir okay this is an appeal that probably as a matter of mr. Barnes indicated has been pending for quite a while this is a house that's loaded off that's located at the intersection of Locust Street and North Country Road and Winding River the house is roughly on three-quarters of an acre it consists of roughly 3,800 square feet so it's not a small house the applicants position has been and continues to be that there are four residential units in this house three of them are rented and the fourth one is the residents of the Brenner's who are both here, Bruce Brenner, Ray Jean Brenner, and they've lived in this house for 50 years. I'll bring Mr. Brenner up. If it's okay with you, what I'd like to do is pose some questions to Mr. Brenner based upon the memo that was written by Mr. Downs, because that's essentially the subject of the town's objection to the four units. The town's position has been basically that there are three units in this house instead of four. And of course, the Brenners insist that there are four. If I can bring Mr. Brenner up, what I'd like to do is I'll hand out the memo that Mr. Downs had written a number of years ago. I think we're about to have one.

Thank you, sir.

Please raise your right hand. I do solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. So help you God. Please state your name and address. Bruce Brenner. I live at 6302 North Country Road, Wading River, 11792. Okay. Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Cuddy. Mr. Brenner, did your father buy this house at a point in time in 1962? Yes, he did. He bought this house in particular because he was forced to retire because of his health. This house is a three-family house when he bought it. Immediately upon purchasing it in the end of 1962 and through the year 1963, he converted one of the apartments, one of the larger apartments, into two apartments. And that created, of course, four apartments. It's been four apartments ever since then. He bought it in 1962. Was there a CO that said that it was a three or four family house? No, there was no CO in 1962. The Riverhead adopted its code, I believe, in 1964. Was there any documentation from 1962 that would verify that it was a three or four family house? There's a document that the assessor did that shows that it was a three family house in 1954, but there's nothing that shows it was a four family house in 1962. and that's why we're here because we insist that it is a four-family house from 63 on so mr cuddy if i may i'd just like to enter into the record uh the first zoning code for the town i've ever had a lot of people often recite 1965. actually the first zoning code was adopted in june of 1959 so i'm going to provide you with a copy um and here's one for it's on your book

I'd like to enter into the record the 1962 deed, which is certified, and also the 1978 deed, which is Mr. Brenner's deed when he purchased the house. The town's position has been based upon this memorandum that I handed out from Mr. Downs. In the same year, in 2014, Mr. Hammond, who was then the building inspector, indicated that this was a four-unit house. It subsequently was rescinded because of this memo that's written by Mr. Dams. And I'd like to go through the memo because I think the statements that he makes, which or six in number are not accurate. And so we dispute them, and I would like to ask Mr. Brenner some questions about it.

Mr. Brenner, between 62 and the time your father acquired, I'm sorry, the time you acquired title, did you regularly visit the home? Yes, I did. During that time, how many units were in the home from 63 on? Four units.

Have you tried to get a rental permit for this site? I tried to get rental permits many times. I also, in 1987, I was trying to get a CFO, which I later found out you can't get at that time because they didn't have them. So I went down to the town because I was trying to refinance, and the banks wanted a CFO. obviously I couldn't get a CMO so I went down to the town to see how I could rectify this I believe it was a mr. Wicks are at the time that told me that I couldn't get a CMO that I had to get an LP EU and I says all right what do I got to do for that he says well I have to do an inspection well he came to the house he made an inspection and he actually we found out later on well actually I knew at the time that he had a friend there that lived in the very apartment that my father had created a guy by the name of Leo Moore he was a retired farmer in the area he had a farm in waiting with a man a road anyway upon Upon leaving the, upon completing the inspection, my wife was there at the time, and she asked him, well, are you going to give us the LPEU for the family, for the four-family house? And his response was, no, I can't do that. I don't know why he couldn't do that, but that's what we heard. So not only did we try to get the certificate of occupancies, but we were trying to get this LPEU so that we could continue to try to get the certificate, the LPEU, so we could get permits. Now, who was the individual who did the inspection? Ray Wixor. Mr. Wixor.

And that was a town employee with the building department? Yeah. He was a building inspector at that time.

Now, have you reviewed the documents that Mr. Downs refers to in this memo? Yes, I have. Okay. At first he indicated that there was a data assessment card. 1965-66 it shows it as a three-family house. Is that accurate? It's accurate that the form says that, but on that form there's another date that says 77-78, which also said that it's a three-family house. However, we got a survey that my mother apparently had made in 1976, but clearly states that it's a four-family house and delineates apartment one, two, three, and four. Mr. Cuddy, do you have a copy of that survey? At the end, I'm going to hand up copies. I won't do one at a time, but we have all of the things we're going to refer to, yes. Next, there indicates in the second point that there was a new assessment card in the year 1979 to the present that showed also three kitchens. Have you reviewed that? Yes, I have. And again, he says there's three kitchens. Let me see if I can get it on my hand.

But that form is wrong. This is the data sheet that I refer as the new data sheet. The card actually contradicts itself. In one point, it says it has three kitchens, and under the title of memorandum on that form, it says it's a two-family house. It also has property class 220, was crossed out and replaced by the number 230. Fireplaces went from two to three. This house was built in 1915, and it's had three fireplaces since 1915. Four baths went from two to three. There are four baths. Total rooms that were listed on that form were 12. There are 18. These 18 rooms have been there since the house was built. And the kitchens went from two to three. There are four. So I think everything's wrong in that form. I don't know how that can be used as evidence. There was then a statement from a former tenant that also said in 2003 that the house was a three-family home. That's correct. I find it interesting that he's referred to as a tenant when, in fact, he was a tenant that we were evicting at that time. And he was very angry, and he inundated the town with complaints. And what's the name of that tenant? The tenant was Richard Squatieri. You have his letter again. I'll put that out when I finish.

One of his complaints, there was a building inspector or whatever that came to the house, and Richard wasn't home at the time, but I was there, and this particular person said his name, I believe was Matthew White. And he said that he had a complaint and it would be okay if he went into the apartment. Since he had the complaint, he showed me. I said, sure. And I led him into Squattery's apartment because they weren't home to show him. And this Matthew White went into the apartment. When he came out, he said to me, Mr. Brenner, you have a tenant problem, not a house problem. That's number one on his complaint. The other thing is... Let me see, where were we here?

Was that determination by him correct, that you had a three-family house? Oh, no. No, we had a four-family house. We've always had a four-family house from 1962. If I'm not mistaken, Mr. Squartieri said that he was in every unit in the house. He was not in every unit in the house. None of my tenants have ever been in the entire house. Richard Downs has never been in my entire house. And it's interesting that in 2008, Richard Downs deposed a previous tenant of mine, Karen Gibson, who was there for 17 to 18 years before Richard Downs. And he asked her that question, were you ever in the entire house? and her answer was definitively no.

Mr. Squartieri also claimed or stated in that statement that there were three mailboxes per unit. Three mailboxes per unit. That would mean there were nine mailboxes. According to the logic of Mr. Downs, that would mean there were nine apartments. Because he's stating, because Richard Downs says there was three mailboxes, therefore there was three apartments. He obviously did not realize that there's a lot of people in this world that have P.O. boxes, myself included at that time. P.O. box, what was it? What you're really saying is that the three mailboxes don't really mean a great deal. Well, it doesn't mean a great deal. But again, like I said, people use post office box. One of the affidavits was from an Eric Furtiva who used the post office box. I had people there, a young lady that lived across the street from a family by the name of Davies. She just wanted an apartment for herself, so she rented an apartment for us for a couple of years, and she got a male at her mother's house. I had an 80-year-old woman at the time that had some problems. She lived there, and she got her male through her daughter that lived a few blocks away. So it's all mountains, and I think that's about all I got there. The next item they talk about in this memo from Mr. Downs is that there was a small residential income property appraisal which also indicated there was a three-family home have you seen that appraisal yes I've seen that appraisal if you look at that appraisal you would see that it refers to a house that was built in 1894 my house was built in 1915 by a very famous architect George Appleby I believe his name was he built the other three houses on the block also he also built about 500 houses in montana he was a very famous architect so basically yeah okay go ahead so based upon the real estate appraisal evaluation containing the wrong date for when the house was built that You're claiming that report was in error? I am doing that, but I'd also like to point out that we got that survey in 1976 that claims it's a four-family house, and we got another appraisal that was done in 1988 that shows it's a four-family house. You paid for that appraisal, correct? In 1988, I definitely did, yes. The appraisal I did, yes. So, you were given a copy of the appraisal, right? And you didn't object to it or have the individual that you paid to do the appraisal correct it? Are you talking about the one from 94 now? Yes. I'm talking about... Yes. House 1894. You see, at the time I was trying to refinance. I was running into this problem with the certificate of occupancy. So I went to a few banks and there were a few appraisers that came to the house at different times. Okay? And what happened, I eventually got approved by the one in 1988. I don't know where that 94 one came. I don't remember. Maybe I was refinancing again. Like I said, I refinanced quite a few times. But this said, it was a three-family, but it was the wrong house they were appraising, apparently.

That's your opinion, and you're relying in part on the date that the home was constructed was erroneous, correct? That's correct. He was also saying that he had numerous appraisals done, and he's not sure if this was any of significance to him. I think that's what his testimony was. Well, it was a loan ally, you know. My question is, if this appraisal was for your benefit and there was an error, why didn't you request that the errors be corrected? Well, for one thing, it wasn't in my benefit. I mean, it's telling me it's a three-family one. It's a four. I don't think so. I think you... Okay. So I don't... She wants to know why something wasn't cured if you saw it was three family. Did you use that appraisal? No. The appraisal wasn't used. The fact that it was made doesn't have too much benefit to it either way. Okay. Number five in his statement from Mr. Downs talks about your veterans exemption. We indicated that this was a three-family residence. Would you explain that? Yes. I'm a vet. I was in a service from 61 to 1965, for what it's worth. I was a police officer in the city from 65 to 69, and then I went over to the fire department and retired as a captain in 1994. for. My point being is that I am a veteran. I'm entitled to these benefits. And when I went down to the assessor's office, I was told I had to go down there to sign a statement. And when I went down there, the statement was put in front of me. I could clearly see that it was saying three-family house. Okay? I also realized that if I was to say, hey, no, it's not a three-family house, it's a four-family house, I would have never, that benefits would have been delayed. And that was done in 1981. It's 2026 now. That's 45 years I would not have received these benefits. So, yes, I signed that statement.

The last thing is the rental occupancy permit. That indicates that there were three units. Did you look at that? I certainly looked at that. That was a form in order to get permits. The form specifically asked for the number of rental units, not units, the number of rental units. There was three rental units. There's always been three rental units, and it's been a four-family house from 62 until present without any change. Did Mr. Downs ever go into your house? Mr. Downs was never in my house. Excuse me, so you lived in the fourth unit, is that correct? That's correct. Yes, sir.

I think it should be noted that also Mr. Downs has indicated that it's worthwhile Well, because there's a factual dispute here that this go before the zoning board. So I think even he had some misgivings about whether this was three or four. And I think that this has been going on for a long time because of some of the errors that really just Mr. Brenner's talked about. We're speaking now of a house that uniformly has, and we're going to present some affidavits from the neighbors, It's been a four-family house for more than 60 years. That's pretty remarkable, and I think you'll see the affidavits that we present verify that from the neighbors. I also would like to point out to you that Jack Weary, in 2014, went into this house. He's a building inspector, and he made this statement, which I'm going to put in my pocket, my group of things here, indicating it was four units, and he labeled each one of the units. That's in 2014.

My wife and I went down to the building department in 2025, once again trying to get permits and whatever it is I was required to get. And we spoke to two building department people who worked for Andreas Sifoklis. And they told us that Mr. Sifoklis was extremely sorry for what the town did to us. I find that interesting. What I also find interesting is Mr. Sopoculus sent a letter to Mr. Cuddy, as a matter of fact, and it says re, and it refers to the maintenance of a four-family dwelling, maintenance of a four-family dwelling, not to restore the four-family dwelling. I found that interesting. We're also going to put that letter in evidence, too.

But we're here. If you have questions, we certainly are willing to respond and perhaps give you some more information if you want some. But it's been our position uniformly that this house was obtained in 1962 and through 1962-63, there was a fourth unit added to it. It's never changed since that time. The statement from Mr. Downs, who was never in the House, is really suspect because most of it's, in fact, all of it's actually hearsay. He talks about assessments. He doesn't talk about ever seeing the House. Mr. Weary, who says he did see the House, says it's four units. So it's hard to believe that we keep going back and forth as to whether it's three or four. There's no one that I know of in the town that has been in the house that has said it's three. Anyone who went in the house said it was four. So it's hard to understand why we keep going back and forth. But in any event, all of the documents that we refer to, I'll put here so I can hand them in to you. Mr. Brennan, you had said something in the beginning, and I don't know if it was to Cody or Mr. Brennan, You had started out by mentioning that one of the units was converted or one unit was made into two or two was made into one. I didn't follow that. I got lost in that. When my father first bought it, it had three apartments. Total? Total. Okay. When my father bought it, he was trying to generate more income. Okay? So he converted one of the apartments on the first floor into two apartments. Okay. And that made a total of four. And what year are we talking about? 62, 63. And then eventually you bought this house? Yes. Did you grow up in this house? No. I was actually, like I said, in the service when my father bought this house. Okay. And then eventually you bought it from your mom and dad? Yes. And what year was that? That way, 78, yes. 78. Were your mom and dad living in that house? I'm sorry? Were your mother and father living in that house? Yes. And then in one of the apartments? Yes, yes. They lived, let me see. They were on the second floor apartment. But there were still only three apartments, right? There were three apartments plus they lived in one. There's four. We're talking total. There's four apartments. There are four units, but three of them are rental units. And the other, either his parents lived in or he lived in. He's lived in the house since... Did mom and dad use the house as their primary residence? Yes. Did they have a secondary residence? At that time, no. So they lived there full time? Yes. You bought the house in 78? That's correct. Is mom and dad alive at that point? Father died. My mother was. The mother sold him the house in 1970 to have the deed, and that's what it shows. And where did mom go? Did she stay there with you? She stayed for a while, and then she moved over to the Leisure Village very shortly after that. My wife and I were living in that apartment since we got married in 76. We were living in that downstairs apartment. When my father passed away, I mean, actually even when my father was there, I mean, we were going upstairs. She was down in our apartment. We were just like a real family, but it was still two separate apartments. So that's two apartments. There's a little one that my father created, and then there's an apartment above the garage. Just for the layup so I can get it straight in my mind, there's an apartment in the basement. No, there's no basement apartment. Oh, apartment on the first floor? Yes. Two apartments on the second floor? No. Well, there's two apartments on the first floor. Then in the main house, there was an apartment on, let me see, this is, we're going back now. No, I'm thinking.

There's a garage, according to Jack Weiris, and this is true, he labels the apartment number one, which is next to the garage. That's the one my father put it. Apartment two is over the garage. And apartment three is the ground floor front residence consisting of a kitchen and bathroom block. And apartment four is on the second floor consisting of a bathroom and that's it. So two apartments on the first floor, two apartments on the second floor. Is that a simple way to say this? Ah, yes. Okay. And are they all one bedroom? No. Describe to us what the layout is of these apartments. How many bedrooms are there? All right. The apartment number one has one bedroom. Apartment number two over the garage has one bedroom. apartment number three on the ground floor has one bedroom and upstairs has a second floor would have three bedrooms great yeah so we got three one-bedroom apartments and one three-bedroom apartment which one did you live in now then I was on that first floor with a one-bedroom apartment Where do you live now? Now I live on the first and part of the second floor. Do you occupy two units? Not really, no, because what we did is we moved. We took over the second floor that was my mother's apartment, But we shortened that out, we took the kitchen out of there, and we moved it to the other side. So what we did, we always maintained four units. But we enlarged ours because I had three kids and we needed more space. And we created a smaller apartment. So in your area, you live there with your wife and three children. Yes, I initially lived on a ground floor apartment. I've been living on it since about 79 we took over part of that second floor apartment and we've been living there ever since. Did you obtain building permits to do these renovations? We tried for the renovation. Are you talking about the renovation that my father put in? No, I'm talking about you just described you made significant alteration to the interior of the house. And I'm asking if you obtained building permits. Yes, but we did not make significant changes. What we basically did was... Maybe his wife could explain it better than Egan. If she can come up here, I think she can. Do you want me to explain it? Come on up, it's friendly. On the second, what we did was just on the second... Please raise your right hand. I just saw him. He's swearing to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you God. Yes, I do. Please state your name and address. Ray Jean Brenner, also known as Raphael Brenner, 6302 North Country Road, waiting where we're in New York. So on the second floor when we moved up, we at some point took the stove from one wall and put it on another wall. We did nothing structurally to the outside or inside frame of the house. It was just putting it on another wall. And that's what we did. And so we lived to accommodate our family, take over a little bit more space. But it always, always had four kitchens, four bathrooms, four units. Does that help? How many kids did you have at that time? Four. Four kids? No. Oh, four kids? How many kids? I'm sorry. How many children did you have? Children? I had three. So I just want to make sure I understand this. So you had a first floor apartment, and then you did something on the second floor that basically took some of the space from one of the units and brought it in. I'm trying to understand. I'm assuming everything was demised behind the door. There's one door that goes into each one of the units. Yes. How did you solve that problem of not having to, if you were taking space away on a second floor that was part of a different one, how were you accessing that? Did you put staircases in? How did you get to that? there was an entrance to that outside from the outside of the house it's a stairwell and a deck that goes up to that back of the house there that's on the east side yes all right so then we drove past and so that there was an access stair now we on the second from the second floor what was our kitchen above the stairs what my My wife is saying is we took the stove out of there and we put it into what was a laundry room. Yes. Okay. The plumbing was all there. Everything was there. All we had to do is hook up a stove and a sink and a dishwasher. But the plumbing was there because it was adjacent to the bathroom and the other kitchen. So it's not like we did any major renovation. But ... Excuse me. what you might be asking I think is like how did we like what did we do to that wall from the one space to the other. I'm just trying to understand how you were getting in there. So if the whole family was living on the first floor and then you took over the second portion did you have to run outside to get in from the outside because that's what I deciphered from the outside staircase. The staircase when you go into the front entrance, the main entrance, you have access to the entire first floor apartment okay okay which I think they labeled as apartment number three there and then you go up the stairs and you come out into a foyer and then our before we changed that there was a kitchen right there there was a bedroom to the left there was another room over here which could could have been used as a dining room or I use it for my library and then there's another room over here that's a living room and then there's another room that's a bedroom okay and what we did where that foil was when you come up the stairs you go in a little bit and it was a door that went into two back rooms okay yeah the one that was a wonderful yeah so basically what we did we moved the stove into that laundry room and I put up a piece of three quarter minutes ply over that door okay it's still there a piece of the door still there and the three quarter minutes ply is still there okay so you basically you had an interior staircase that was doing something and then you kind of partitioned it off upstairs got it do you have separate meters electric meters going for each one of the units? No, I only have the garage apartment as a separate unit. I have three meters altogether, but because at one time I was going to separate the first floor from the second, but then with us taking over and the kids and everything else, it was just easier and cheaper just to leave it the way it is. So there's three meters. Does your rent include utilities? On the two small apartments, yes. So what about the other apartments? The garage apartment, the one above the garage, they have their own meter, they pay their own utilities. Okay. Two meters on the house? Three. They share one. Who do you share a meter with? We don't really share a meter with anybody. I'm paying the utilities for two apartments and our apartment. Their apartment includes the utilities. We pay it. Okay. But the garage apartment's always been separate and isolated and separate houses. No utilities. I just want to get... I'm sorry, Dan. You want to go? Yeah, go. I'm just trying to get a little bit more of the history. This is a complicated... It is complicated. Long journey. So I have you guys married. You have the three kids. You take over one of the apartments upstairs. Now there's five of you living there. And I'm assuming now there's only two rentable apartments available because the kids are occupying the second apartment. Is that a fair statement? No, because where I put that three-quarter of its pie, blocking it that that now had a two-room unit there that has a bathroom and it has a kitchen and it has a bedroom that was rented out that was rented out yes okay okay then we have the one downstairs that my father put in that's rented out he's been here for 17 18 years now and then the one above the garage so those those are the three rental units and and we have the the rest of the house on that consists of part of the first floor and part of the second floor second yeah go ahead i'm sorry so you know as as a board it's a very interesting story i could actually like a million questions about this but you know as a board we need we're looking for some kind of we didn't get to it yet but we're looking to for some kind of proof that you're actually been renting these places other than you know mortgage applications and and things like that i would assume if you have three people living in your house renting apartments for the last china fed last 40 50 years you're saying you you would have rent checks you would have leases you would have information about who these people are that have been living in under the same roof as you and your family for all these years well i certainly have some leases i mean i I don't save them. Once they're gone, they're gone, you know. But I have some leases that go on. I think you're going to have to go. I guess I could go through some old IRS forms and that would show the income from them. I don't know how far back that is. I think that would be in your best interest. It would behoove you to go find, because those documents are very important to the application that you're making. You know, IRS documents that claim rental incomes from three different apartments, rent checks that you've put in the bank. I mean, banking records go back very far. In other words, I could call up a bank and get records going back 20, 30 years? If you want to get a house approved for a four-unit rental, I think you should do something like that. No, I mean, would the bank have them that far? I don't know. I'm not the bank. But you should definitely inquire about that. And I would also, I mean, let me ask you this question on the record. every person that ever rented this house did you give them a lease yes okay but I like I said I don't keep the quality system or do I keep all my IRS forms after I think you're only supposed to only require the same of the three years yes yeah well what I'm what I'm trying to ask you is you had mentioned very loosely that somebody's living there for 18 years already right so I'm assuming that you have a you have a lease for that person I'm assuming that you have I'm assuming these weren't like fly-by-night tenants that lived there for like a month and left Tenants have stayed for a substantial amount of time occasionally. I get somebody that I had to evict So he was only there less than two years I had a recent attendant a tenant that Ran into financial problems and she left on her own because she couldn't keep paying okay beautiful So you said the magic words most of you most of your tenants stayed there for a pretty considerable amount of time That's correct. So it should be less burdensome to go get leases for them. So it's not like you're dealing with one of these rental places where there's a new person every month or every week or every two months. So they're long-term tenants. So I don't think it would be that hard to uncover a lease for somebody who lived there for five years, 10 years, 15 years, 18 years, 20 years. I could get you one from the guy that's been living there for 18 years. I don't know if I can show you a lease from him for all the years back, but I can get an affidavit from him saying he was living there all those years because he's been there, living there. He's a barber in Riverhead here. I think I speak on behalf of the board and for the board if I say you should get as many of those as you can. All right. I understand. And the one – you stole my thunder. I'm sorry. I apologize. The one other thing that would really help me, and I didn't see it inside here unless I missed it. So we've had a lot of discussion about number of bedrooms, number of bathrooms, everything else. Is there any chance of getting pictures? We've got four kitchens, right? We've got this stuff. This is there. And Mr. Cuddy says, yes, it came from there. I certainly believe it. I join that request. I'd like to see some pictures. I'm sure we can get you photos. I don't have them here right now, but absolutely. We will get them. We're drawing on what the house layout is. a few more questions if you will about about the layout of this whole thing potentially that you know the kids got at some point the kids get old they move out they leave they go to college they get married things like that they fly the nest right yeah that's true but I'm just potentially in my mind I'm thinking you guys are husband and wife three kids that's potentially five cars at some point right then you got a three-bedroom apartment that could be three cars another two bed another two apartments with two bedrooms that's another two cars where you're not done yet I don't know how many cars that is I lost count but I don't see any parking at this house for that kind of volume of cars I mean this is like turning this is like a rental apartment building that way there would be a lot of driveway a lot of parking but we're looking at like satellite views of your home I see like a normal driveway like I would have it my house yes I want you to comment on that for one day we got a double car garage with an apron on it so you wait before you go any further you used I thought part of that garage is an apartment arm I'm missing a bump of it yes so the garage is a traditional garage yes it's an attached garage okay with love it love it okay so the inside of the garage is like a normal garage we you have storage yes I use of a storage I don't put my daughter in here okay I'd like a photograph for the inside of your garage when we come back right all right okay keep going so there's a napkin in front of that that's capable of parking two cars on the east side of the house there is a ramp and the survey has it on there the survey has on it we occasionally use that to park our car where my grandkids are there because it's just a lot just a lot and it's right by the front entrance and our street is a private road and so we pop on the street on my side of that road which it states on the first old data card 1954 says Locust Street private road no question mr. Cuddy the survey that you were referring to that you had that I believe was the applicants mother survey does that show curb cuts on it so I'm questioning the legality of the various curb cuts you're making in the town of Riverhead you can't simply make curb cuts on your property you house is built excuse me it was there since the house was built well it should be depicted on the survey I would think the house got sidewalks to all the way around it but sorry mom we're gonna put a picture of your satellite image your house up on the on the screen here we'd like to take a lot like that some questions about it thank you Matt and I'd like to introduce these photographs as part of the record here tonight got a couple of them I have several yeah six including the one the tables the seven photographs I don't know if I'm gonna ask you about all them but Let's introduce them as part of tonight's record. They'll be on the screen. Matt, can you just focus on the first one? That's it? This one? Yeah. Just zoom in on that one. Oh, you're not zooming in. Justin. Sorry. Justin.

Okay. So, Mr. Brennan. Yes. We got your house satellite image up on the screen. Excuse me. He's got to go. Yeah, you got to go back to the. Justin. Where does he have to be? At the table? Do they be heard? Yeah, they'll be heard at the table. So we're looking at your house from above. You agree, right? Yes. Alright, so the bottom right hand corner we see like a white car in the driveway. I'm assuming that's the main driveway. Yeah, that's the driveway, right? So where are the other potentially five to ten? Mr. Brennan, can you stand at the podium over there or at least at this black table? Come to this table. Yeah, come to this table. There's a speaker in the ceiling so we can hear you over here. Okay. Sorry, Mr. Brennan, you can come here too. Oh, can you look at this TV instead? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we got one car right here. Right. Right? That's your driveway? That's the driveway. Fits like two, three, four cars at most? It will fit two. It will fit two cars. Where elsewhere on this property are all these tenants parking, including all the vehicles in your household? Well, first of all, there's only, my wife and I have two cars. The kids are gone. Okay. Okay? Then I have... I'm talking about over the whole history of this house. Right now, at the moment, you only have two cars, but I'm assuming during the 50-year history here, there had to be times when there was 10 to 15 cars at this house. Never, never, never. Where did all the rental people... Let me explain something. Okay. What we had basically was one-bedroom apartments that we were renting out, And so and we always try to get one person each in each of our apartments. I get that but you got one bedroom That's one car. You got a second one bedroom. That's two cars you and your wife. That's two cars. That's four cars That's right We didn't even talk about your kids having a car or the three-bedroom apartment having three separate cars the kids gone They don't know what I'm talking about from 1978 to now. I'm talking about right now today What's that we parked on our private dirt road, where's that on there it was there since 62 and 76 that we wanted to show us. That's what I'm asking you. Where is the parking? I have to ask this question. Can you focus on the one photograph? I have to ask this question. Your house is on North Country Road, correct? North Country Road and Locust Street. Your side yard is on Locust, But your front yard is on North Country Road. Correct. Okay. Because you're acting like you have some type of potential ownership rights on Locust. Is there anything in the deed description that you have rights to any portion of Locust Avenue? Is there? I don't know. I'd have to look at that description. I do know that what I've What we're trying to say is ever since we've lived in that house, we have been told that it's a private road. The Keillors actually plowed it for us. Dean Lewin used to plow it for us. And we parked on that street, on Locust Street. It's very clear. I understand what you're stating. But your house is situated, and your address is on North Country Road. Yes, but we don't park on North Country Road. So I have a question. OK, yes. Is this also a vehicle? Yes, that's my daughter's vehicle. I have three grandchildren. Sitting in the front yard. Yes. We have an apron off of North Country Road. I can't make it out on there, but there's an apron where that car came in from. You can't see it there, but I'll get that picture for you. Actually. Yes, you have a picture. I would like, if there's evidence of these aprons I would like evidence going back in time to, truthfully, the 1960s and 1970s. My contention and my belief is that those sidewalks and aprons were built at the same time as the house was built. Ready? You see what? Well, go ahead. The house directly across the street from us on Locust Street was also built by this architect. They also have sidewalks. Sidewalks are an unusual thing to have in Wading River way back then. I'm not concerned about the sidewalks. I'm concerned about curb cuts to, quote, create driveways all over a piece of property. Henry? No. There is an apron on North Country. Yes. It's right here. May I show you? Back then. May I show you? They look like they're in a little bit of disrepair, so they're made out of concrete. Thank you. May I show you? Hold on. Put that picture up on the end. I'm asking for evidence in the 1960s and 70s. Absolutely. Mrs. Brennan wants to show us something on a picture. Where do you want it? Oh, okay. No, no, no. It's right here. Where my daughter's car was to unload the children. that's the extra apron off of North Country Road. And somewhere on some one of my survey pieces of paper, I can't put my fingers on it right this second, it shows you that, that there's an apron on North Country. I could have chosen my main address to be on Locust Street when they changed it from Parker to North Country. They gave me that choice. I kept it at the front door. That picture you have there is not a very good picture to demonstrate anything. Well, it's got the apron right there. That's where it was. Do you have some pictures? No, right here. This is the apron, and that's where she would drive up on load and drive back. Parking has never, ever been an issue for us all the years we've ever had our home. Mr. Cuddy, is there any way we could get a survey as far back as we could on this property that shows everything that's on the property? I don't think they have one. I think the only survey they had, we basically were using the old, old survey from 1960. Well, what does it show? It just shows the house, really. That's all. No curb cuts or anything like that? Okay. How far, how soon back is a survey that will show all that stuff? I don't know if they have another survey that's recent. No, recent. I'm not talking, I mean, Just saying the last 10 or 15 years, is there no surveys at all? Probably not. I don't know. Earlier there was talk about requiring an LPEU for financing reasons. No, I don't have a certificate of occupancy. No. Let her answer the question. What you talked about was at one point in time it was very important to you to either get a certificate of occupancy or an LPEU because you needed it to finance, whether it was purchase of a house or property improvements, correct? It was for a refinance. So for the refinance. I am nearly certain that in order to refinance, you would have also had to submit a survey. Okay. Aren't there any records related to the refinance that documented what improvements existed on the property? If I believe even on the – no, as far as I know, there was no surveys that were required. I just – the only thing I remember ever asking me way back when I was refinancing these things was for a CFO, which I couldn't get. But I showed the documents that I eventually got from Mr. Wixor, who showed that certificate of occupancies were not in existence at that time. And that it was a two and a half story house. That's all he would give us. But it showed that there was no certificate of occupancy. And the bank apparently accepted it. apartments ever been vacant? There's one vacant right now. And how long has it been vacant? It's been vacant about three weeks.

No, because my folks' house is a survey from when it was built. You have no idea where the pools were? Not at all. Back then they used to bury them and it would look. No. I did have one question. So I think we'd have to show this to them so they could better. Oh, yeah. Now you can do it. Mr. Brenner. okay one of the question I found this in the package it's a survey from 1962 I guess I'm just put it on the table so we can view it while the two of us this is more just one understand you want to approach also it's fine this is your folks Frank yes yes yes can you tell me I'm well back away so we can see this above him yeah yeah yeah oh well there's stairs there yeah there was stairs so those went to the almost swimming to the upstairs apartments yes garage and then and then they eventually came down and it was the downstairs apartment that got cut up to make the fourth apartment right correct okay and if you notice on the back of that it shows a garage apartment yeah yeah so that was a great So I never made mention to he just called it a two and a half story home. I practically begged him to please, please, please put down what you see, what you know. Do you know what I have? Please put that down. And his response was, oh, no, I can't do that. I don't know why way back then he wasn't willing to do that. But we've wanted to and we've always wanted to comply with the law. And we wanted to get the rental permits. And that's what this all initiated and started with Jew. Our hands have been tied. We have been blocked. We've been sent in circles from the code enforcement to building, from building to code, to code to clerk. We went around in circles for years to try to get rental permits. I'm not in compliance with that. We can't get it because I don't have an LPEU. We'll get you leases. We'll show you where we park, show you why we park. Yep, yep. And if you can give us some pictures for the inside, right? Absolutely. I'm assuming you're not renovating this every 10 years inside there, so I expect to see it older. older kitchens right because there's no problems but i'll try and get you the leases and i'll try and get you some parking information because i understand what you're looking for thank you okay thank you mr cuddy uh i will more than likely be submitting into the record additional code provisions I'm going to make every effort to do that in advance of our next meeting without a quick time so you can review them but you know by me providing you that code it's really going to highlight I think what you're gonna at at what point in time you need to actually show proof of dating back to those dates. I think we have somebody in the audience who wants to speak. Okay. And then we have a letter also. Matt, also, did we receive correspondence? We did. Today via email, which I distributed to the board from Mr. Andrews. This is from? Mr. Andrews. Which is me. Okay. You're not Mr. Andrews, are you? Yeah, he is. Are you? Go to the podium. Are you Mr. Andrews? Yes. Okay. You just have to go to the podium. Okay, thank you. Please raise your right hand. I do solemnly swear to tell the truth, to hold truth, and to help the church. So help you God? Yes. Please state your name and address. Justin Andrews, and I live at 27 Locust Street in Wading River. So you're across the street from that? Across the street and one house up. Right ahead. Yeah, so my wife and I, we sent a letter in today opposing the appeal, and in hopes to uphold the senior building inspector's decision. so I won't go over the whole letter but just I want to briefly highlight some concerns the lack of evidence that shows that this house is a for family house rather than a three or otherwise I did I only saw what was in the initial packet so you know I don't have what's in front of you guys today and then neighborhood impacts parking is a huge issue on locust street with this property i've talked to the riverhead town highway department locust street is from what they tell me a town maintained road i brought up concerns to the traffic safety committee here in the town and they did try to make some adjustments but it didn't happen sometimes there's eight nine cars on locust street it's definitely a safety issue i've got videos of garbage trucks not being able to service the rest of the road because it is a dead end and town plow trucks and sand trucks not being able to sand and plow the rest of the road past this house and it's been a problem so how long have you lived there since 2020. Where do you observe most of the cars parked right on Locust Street? On Locust Street, yep. In front of the house, from the corner to... Corner, pretty much all the way up to Locust Street. There are vehicles that are on non-driveway areas too, dirt areas, and not in the road technically, or they're half on, half off. Since we've moved there, it does seem like there was an increase. in traffic and vehicles. Just our observation, and we've been there six years, not that that's that long, but long enough to notice there's been a problem. So I would appreciate if the ZVA upheld the building inspector's decision because there are impacts to neighbors like myself and others potentially. So, yeah, that's what I got. Certainly a lot of information has been presented tonight and also a lot of information asked for tonight, so it's going to be a process. Yeah, I just wanted to come and say, you know. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. So I just have to add one thing. It was a lot of mention about the assessment cards. References or notes in the assessment card, whether it's one bedroom, two bedroom, three bedroom, that doesn't mean it was legal. What it means is somebody observed it and that they use that for assessment and valuation. There are numerous incidents where illegal occupancies exist or illegal improvements exist on property and that will be reported in the assessment card because if you put in an illegal pool or an illegal cabana you will be assessed it doesn't mean that that structure or use is legal i just if i may say that one thing we don't know about assessment cards is how they get created it was in this file that you have in 1954 indication that this was three units It changed. We don't know how the assessment card showed that change and may never have showed it. We don't know that there was an assessor that actually went inside to see anything. We know that Mr. Adams didn't go inside. Correct. But it's an assessment. It's not, quote, evidence of legality or legally pre-existing. It can't be evidence of legality because we don't know how it got created. That I agree to. In any event, I'm going to leave these papers so they can be part of the record. We also have a number of affidavits from nearby neighbors indicating that they're aware of this being a four-unit place for many, many years. Mr. Cuddy, I haven't seen the affidavits yet. Do those affidavits address dates and points in time? They address a unit. They say, the affidavit says, that from a point in time, this was a four-unit home. Okay. And these are neighbors that have seen this all the time. Okay. If I understand what you're asking for, we will get back to you and try and give you as much information as we can. Would an adjourned date October 21st? Yes, before we do, we do have someone on Zoom. Their hand's not up. I just don't know if they want to speak or not. So if they want to speak, raise your hand.

Justin, do you know? I have no hand up. No hand up. There's no one on Zoom. Would that be sufficient time? That would be a good date, yes. Okay. What's the date? October 21st. Second meeting in October.

Thank you, Mr. Cuddy. Thank you for letting us present our application. We will be back. Thank you. I call meetings are no to you minutes of August 13th oh we need a motion to adjourn I would say right now there's three on a pass to match no to adjourn this did you was there a motion to adjourn this to the 21st sorry sure the motion to adjourn keeping the hearing open. I second. Okay. Aye. Mr. Porsche. Aye. Mr. Weske. Aye. I would vote aye. Okay. Meeting notes to meeting minutes of August 13th, 2026. Motion to vote. So moved. All in favor? Aye. Anything else? Next meeting date is September 24th, 2026. Same time, same place. Tell me when we're off. I want to say something to the group. To adjourn for a second. Okay. Motion to adjourn. So made. Second. All in favor? Aye.

Thank you.